00:30:03 Nakenya Lewis-Yarbrough: Goodmorning everyone! 00:30:14 Bill Bowman: Hello everyone!!!! 00:30:15 Amy Brown: Good Morning! 00:30:28 Paul McCann: Will this be recorded? 00:30:33 Gina Walmsley: Good morning. 00:30:45 Angela Pike: it is being recorded. 00:31:12 Janel Miller: Good morning! 00:31:16 Paula Drummond: Good Morning, hi Gina! 00:31:32 Gina Walmsley: Hi Paula 00:31:35 Clare Membiela: Hi Everyone! 00:31:42 Tina Hatch: Hi everyone 00:32:01 Julie Farkas: Hello Everyone! 00:32:19 monique: Hello everyone from Escanaba Michigan 00:32:20 Rachel Ash, MLA (she,her): This session will be recorded and posted on the MLA website here: https://www.milibraries.org/mla-connect-coffee-hour 00:32:48 Patty Braden: Hi Julie! 00:33:05 Emily Blakowski: Hello everyone! 00:33:10 Julie Porreca: Hello Patty:) 00:33:45 monique: masks will be required in escanaba 00:33:51 Cathy Lancaster: Masks are the law 00:33:52 Kat Boyer: It's also the current law 00:33:58 Sheryl Mase: Its the law 00:34:15 Paul McCann: Currently, under executive order, a face covering is required for everyone in all enclosed spaces 00:34:23 Debbie Mikula - MLA: It is currently the law based on Exec Orders 00:34:27 Clare Membiela: The EO requires masks in enclosed public spaces, but the libraries must have their own policies if they wantto enforce 00:34:27 Julie Farkas: Governor is requiring for libraries now 00:34:30 Kay Williams: recently had a patron told me she would not put masks on her children. 00:34:47 Sheryl Mase: Any enclosed indoor space 00:34:57 Tracy Logan: Anne S. specifically said we are not required to enforce the E.O. at the MI LIB meeting Friday 00:35:44 Clare Membiela: Yes - the law requires masks in enclosed spaces, but libraries do not have to enforce the EO - a library should have its own policy if they wantto enforce 00:37:18 Vanessa Verdun-Morris: Many of the people in this coffee hour are the leadership for the library, which is why we're looking for guidance. 00:38:02 Victoria Shurly: can we require those who cannot medically wear a mask to use curbside? 00:38:14 Kat Boyer: Victoria I don't think so. 00:38:16 Clare Membiela: @victoria - No 00:38:23 Kat Boyer: You have to apply the same rule to everyone. 00:38:44 Trish Burns: And don't forget that there is the medical exemption so patrons may enter without one 00:39:53 Maria Almaguer: Can't they use a shield if they can't wear a mask? 00:40:01 Karen McConnell: Target manager told me there is a 50% mask compliance with wearing masks 00:40:17 Clare Membiela: @Victoria - the law provides that people with medical issues are exempted - bvut those patrons cannot be treated differently because they have a medical issue libraries can enforce social distancing 00:40:35 Victoria Shurly: thank you 00:40:38 Clare Membiela: @ maria - I will send you informationon the mask vs shield issue 00:41:09 Dominique O'Reilly: So we should offer disposable masks for those who forget... 00:41:29 Kat Boyer: Dominique, that is what I am applying for with the CARES grant 00:41:36 Tracy Aldrich: I would also like info on the shields vs. masks issue. Thanks 00:41:38 Bill Bowman: That is one thing we are going to do. Have masks and shields to distribute. 00:41:39 Karen McConnell: Costco offers masks at the door 00:41:52 Kathy Irwin: 10% will argue in my experience the past few weeks. 00:41:57 Clare Membiela: @ tracy - I'll send to you too 00:41:59 Debbie Mikula - MLA: We have heard about more libraries offering free masks at the door 00:42:07 Tracy Aldrich: Thanks Clare! 00:42:43 Clare Membiela: There are many options for cheap DIY masks libraries can offer for patrons to make 00:42:45 Cindi Place: We are offering free masks to patrons...we also will allow anyone to simply pull up a shirt to cover their nose and mouth....as a last resort. 00:42:53 Carol Souchock: Clare can you please share the shield mask info with all? Thanks, Carol 00:42:55 Cathy Lancaster: Having greeters at the door (behind shields and masked up) is a great way to verbally set the policies upfront as patrons come in, in a clear, engaging way. 00:42:59 Clare Membiela: @cindi - very clever! 00:43:11 Clare Membiela: @ Carol - yes 00:43:12 Tammy Walker: Maybe have a station set up at each entry door 00:43:46 Debbie Mikula - MLA: Entry door greetings with a “elevator speech” 00:43:54 Anjie Gleisner: We plan on having a greeter at the door during open hours. Security guards may also be able to help greet as well. 00:44:10 Anjie Gleisner: Greeters may also monitor building capacity. 00:44:18 Terrie Ahlers: any thoughts on how to mitigate other patrons engaging with those who aren’t wearing a mask 00:44:23 Anna Clark: We have a greeter as well 00:44:24 Cindi Place: Smaller libraries don't really have the option of a greeter.. 00:44:34 Clare Membiela: libraries are not in a position to enforce the state EO- libraries must have their own policies in place to enforce a mask oilicy 00:44:41 Teresa Natzke: When do libraries intend to be open to the public or are you already? 00:44:52 Lydia Schmidt: My library has a door greeter with disposable masks in bags to give out if people don’t have a mask. We also ask patrons who don’t want to wear one to at least wear the mask to the computer lab and then they can take it off when they’re on the computer. 00:44:59 Anjie Gleisner: Volunteer greeters from Friend's groups? 00:45:16 Anna Clark: We are in Phase 1 of our opening, we are doing "Take Out" services only, no patrons allowed in the buildings yet. 00:45:21 Cindi Place: I am hoping to have Bellaire open by appointment July 7th, then if all goes well open to public without appointment (masks, sanitizer etc. still) August 1st. 00:45:24 Debbie Mikula - MLA: Love that @Anjie 00:45:32 Amber Sheerin, MLA (she/her): Casey’s last presentation I on the MLA website for anyone that missed it! 00:45:40 Anna Clark: The disposable masks at the door are a wonderful idea 00:46:02 Amber Sheerin, MLA (she/her): https://www.milibraries.org/mla-connect 00:46:04 Cindi Place: Has anyone else run in to the problem of Friends volunteers mostly older patrons, so therefore they feel too vulnerable to help out right now? 00:46:06 Kat Boyer: We are doing curbside only right now in Benton Harbor. I am hoping to move to by appointment possibly right before July, and then move to limited services after July 4th weekend. 00:46:12 Debbie Mikula - MLA: De-escalation happens when you are in a good state of mind, not “hot” 00:46:13 Julie Farkas: Anne Seurynck says "Under the current EO that masks are required unless they cannot be medically tolerated. Some libraries do not want to enforce, but she is of the opinion the EO requires it. With that said if a guest/patron says they can't medically tolerate she doesn't recommend that the library go beyond that in their inquiry. Some libraries may choose not to enforce and take the risk. 00:47:28 Sheryl Mase: Right, and the library can then offer a reasonable accommodation, such as bringing books outside to them. 00:47:30 Clare Membiela: Be careful of volunteers in confrontational positions - talk to your lawyer about OSHA implications with volunteers - and volunteers will need the same training as staff... 00:47:32 Cindi Place: We have been advised by our attorney that as long as we offer a reasonable accommodation to patrons who medically cant wear masks (or are allergic to sanitizer) we are ok. We are working with those patrons by helping them check out materials curbside. 00:47:50 Cindi Place: Dos that sound sensible? 00:48:25 Clare Membiela: @ Cindi - yes reasonable accommodation is exactly right - as long as the person wants it. You can't force it on them 00:48:47 Debbie Mikula - MLA: Scripting is a great way for everyone to say the same thing. 00:49:10 Terrie Ahlers: yes just because we have said the policy 100 times, we need to remember they are hearing it for the first time. 00:49:34 Linda Ballard: Cindi- that is our understanding also. We will deny entrance without a mask but not deny service by offering an accommodation. 00:49:59 Kat Boyer: Anne S said that the entrance is a 1st amendment issue. 00:50:10 Kat Boyer: If you let people in, you have to let people in. You can't only let people with masks in. 00:50:25 Clare Membiela: @cindi, @ linda - be very careful about this 00:50:34 Debbie Mikula - MLA: @Terrie - that is so true. 00:50:49 Terrie Ahlers: @Kat she also says to make sure the policies are updated and posted 00:51:01 Clare Membiela: @kat - exactly right 00:51:11 Maria Almaguer: It's concerning that we seem to have to walk a fine line between personal safety and customer service. 00:51:18 Cathy Lancaster: So once you've laid out the policy and followed the script, what's the next step as patrons get angry 00:51:19 Terrie Ahlers: how to help patron not interact and try to enforce mask rules 00:51:20 Betsy Hull: How is no shirt, no shoes no service different than no masks? 00:51:26 Anna Clark: good point, maria! 00:51:29 monique: Is there a moment when you need to call law enforcement if patrons because really irate? 00:51:54 Kristin Church: this is currently a mandate ... I am concerned about how to move forward once it is no longer a mandate. 00:52:03 Lisa Boyd: I needed that compliment this morning! 00:52:05 Clare Membiela: @ betsy - it is not - as long as the medical issue is exempted 00:52:09 Patty Braden: How would you handle a patron who is angry that another patron is not wearing a mask? 00:52:37 Clare Membiela: When you call the police - you are calling to have them get a patron under control - not enforce a mask requirement 00:52:38 Alexis Shirk: It's different because no shoes, no shirt doesn't effect breathing. I speak this as someone who can't wear a mask and is currently wearing a shield instead. 00:52:45 Terrie Ahlers: Thank you!! 00:52:53 Maria Almaguer: Yes! 00:53:00 Oscar DeLong: I would check with a lawyer about whether you can completely restrict access if the person does not wear a mask 00:53:02 Kathy Irwin: Not scared about going back to work, but want to protect my employees. 00:53:06 Pam Orr: yes 00:53:09 Clare Membiela: @ Alexis - Shields are a great accommodation 00:53:09 Karen McConnell: I feel very protective of my staff 00:53:42 Clare Membiela: @Oscar - yes Reasonable accommodation cannot be forced. 00:53:59 Melissa Malcolm: @Karen -- Indeed. 00:54:25 Karen McConnell: Clarification: Legally, we CAN require the mask. Are we allowed to ask if someone is medically unable to wear a mask?? 00:54:26 Oscar DeLong: Bear in mind, that a lot of things are based on equal application of the rule. So if you require that everyone is required to wear a mask to enter, and you offer anyone curbside as an option, then you would not be enforcing different rules by keeping people without a mask out 00:54:27 Beverly Dear: the bottom line for us is that if staff get sick, the library may have to close again. 00:54:45 jude halloran: balancing good customer service w/ safety - esp. concerned about staff safety assisting w/ computers. we're aware that people have been shot or assaulted over mask enforcement. 00:54:53 Kat Boyer: Oscar, that is not what Anne S and Clare have been saying. 00:54:57 Terrie Ahlers: @Oscar- agreed 00:54:58 Michelle Moore: Do we still follow this mask rule during the time set aside for the vulnerable population (ours will be 2 hours on Monday morning)? Many of them won't be able to wear masks? 2 policies/rules?????? 00:55:00 Kat Boyer: It isn't the same options to everyone. 00:55:04 Beth Johns: I'm in an academic library and although I work in tech services, I do have pretty regular contact with our students who are known to come in with all types of illnesses to get work done, so that's my worry -- someone clearly ill, but manages to get past our front desk. It will be interesting! 00:55:07 Sheryl Mase: Small libraries in regions up north that are more open are really struggling since it has become political and so relaxed all around about wearing masks… 00:55:21 Kat Boyer: The access to the BUILDING itself is part of the 1st amendment right. 00:55:27 Cindi Place: Maybe we are really in the minority, but we don't always have two staff (including the director) working at the same time. So we will just do the best we can. 00:55:55 Terrie Ahlers: @Kat- yes but patrons must abide by our policies. 00:56:05 Kat Boyer: But you can't have policies that violate the law 00:56:07 Teresa Natzke: Cindi, we also only usually have one staff member in the library at a time. 00:56:24 Kristen Valyi-Hax: Clare, I'm confused. "Reasonable accommodation cannot be forced." Okay, but I thought just because someone can't/won't wear a mask doesn't mean that we have to provide them the service exactly like they want. "Oh, you won't wear a mask. ::shrug:: Well, come right in!" 00:56:24 Angela Pike: and there is a witness if something comes up after the incident 00:56:38 Terrie Ahlers: @Beth- very tough situation! 00:56:57 Kat Boyer: If someone has no mask, they can claim medical reasons. Which we can not require proof of. 00:56:57 Pam Orr: yes 00:56:59 Oscar DeLong: @kat has a lawyer confirmed that access to the building is a first amendment right? 00:57:04 Terrie Ahlers: please discuss patron to patron interactions over mask wearing 00:57:13 Kat Boyer: @Oscar, yes Anne Suerick (I spelled her name wrong) 00:57:16 Kat Boyer: from Foster & Swift 00:57:34 Oscar DeLong: Ok, interesting 00:57:35 Oscar DeLong: Thank you 00:59:50 Alex Smith (she/her): Just a thought, if you work in a library with only one employee in the building at a time, perhaps you can have a volunteer from the community be the second body in the building for the first few weeks, to be a witness? 01:00:42 Cathy Lancaster: How might body language and such help de-escalate? Please share some tips. 01:02:16 Alex Smith (she/her): Also, echoing @Terrie, curious about your thoughts on patron to patron mask wearing interactions. 01:02:51 Kat Boyer: Patrons aren't allowed to harass each other in my library. So if you are harassing someone because of a maks, or because he/she is your ex boyfriend/girlfriend neither is allowed. 01:03:03 Patty Braden: One patron may come to the staff to complain about another patron not following the rules. What do staff say to that patron? 01:04:28 Patty Braden: We can't tell that patron that another patron has a medical reason for now wearing the mask. 01:04:42 Patty Braden: not 01:05:23 Michelle Norquist: What about in an academic/college/school environment where we don’t want to discourage library use? 01:06:16 Cathy Lancaster: For more de-escalation tips, there are two free sessions on LM's Staff Skills Academy: https://my.nicheacademy.com/staffskills 01:06:39 Clare Membiela: @Oscar - Both the Mi constitution and the US Constitution 1st Amendment provide a right to libraries The ADA is a separate but related issue. You cannot refuse access for a medical reason (such as not being able to wear a mask because of medical issues). Accommodation can be used if the patron wants it. 01:06:42 Debbie Mikula - MLA: Can you talk about taking people to a more private place to have a conversation if they remain angry 01:07:03 Terrie Ahlers: @ Cathy Lancaster- thank you. Are those open to anyone to view? 01:07:30 Clare Membiela: @Oscar- if you want more information, I am happy to provide some - membielac@michigan.gov Anne S. is also a fantastic resource. 01:08:09 Debbie Mikula - MLA: How many of you have adopted a new policy for mask wearing? 01:08:20 Terrie Ahlers: working on it 01:08:24 Bill Bowman: We have 01:08:39 Clare Membiela: @CathyL - Thanks for posting that!!! 01:08:40 Angela Pike: we have added a policy but included the eo and when it expires, that policy will expire as well 01:08:53 Kat Boyer: We adopted a policy and opening plan which spells out requirements in the phases. 01:08:55 Oscar DeLong: @Clare I am not advocating to refuse access. If you allow access through curbside pickup, you are still providing access. Wouldn’t that still count? The question becomes specifically if access has to be physical to the space or is access to the resources considered equal 01:09:55 Oscar DeLong: That is my question. If a lawyer has addressed that please link me to that information as I would need to have that information in case my superiors ask about that 01:10:13 Bill Bowman: "Alternative library service" is service, correct? We would need to define that, wouldn't we? 01:10:45 Maria Almaguer: Thank you for saying that, Casey. 01:10:56 Cathy Lancaster: @Oscar Clare is the Library of Michigan Library Law Consultant. Please find more legal resources here: https://www.michigan.gov/libraryofmichigan/0,9327,7-381-88855_98256---,00.html 01:11:46 Oscar DeLong: Thank you. I am not meaning to be argumentative, but my supervisors have required confirmation about these things. 01:11:55 jude halloran: Like Angela - our policy follows the EO re: masks; when that expires then we're 'recommending' but it's not required policy 01:12:21 Clare Membiela: @Oscar- The issue is treating people differently. By refusing physical access to people because of a medical issue that prevents the wearing of a mask, you are treating them differently because of their medical issue - which is a violation of the ADA and their constitutional rights. You can offer accommodation, but you can't bar them entrance from a building. 01:13:03 Clare Membiela: @Oscar- please don't hesitate to contact me! membielac@michigan.gov 01:13:16 Oscar DeLong: Thank you Clare. This is very helpful 01:13:54 Kathy Irwin: Tips from the book, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, works with adults too 01:14:22 Terrie Ahlers: Is the grief conversation through MLA too? I’d love to attend 01:14:57 cynthia simpson: Maybe a coffee hour on grief response for employees and patrons 01:15:01 Amber Sheerin, MLA (she/her): @ Terrie, it is not. Casey is very in demand :) 01:15:14 Terrie Ahlers: ok 01:15:26 Terrie Ahlers: I’m sure she is 01:15:30 Amber Sheerin, MLA (she/her): We are just about out of time, but this is a conversation we will continue in the coming weeks. 01:15:45 Amber Sheerin, MLA (she/her): Like Casey said, just scratching the surface on a big issue today. 01:16:24 Clare Membiela: @Bill be very careful about "alternate service" and how that is applied. 01:16:42 Margaret Loebe: This was a great conversation and so helpful today. Thanks, Casey and MLA and everyone 01:16:45 Terrie Ahlers: Thank you for this conversion today! 01:16:56 Clare Membiela: @kat- exactly!! 01:17:00 Julie Williams: Thank you for the presentation today! 01:17:09 Cindy Gillham: Thank you! 01:17:12 Tina Mullins: This was very helpful! 01:17:16 Emily Blakowski: That’s awesome1 01:17:18 Melissa English: Thank you! 01:17:20 Kathy Irwin: Love! 01:17:20 Emily Blakowski: *! 01:17:25 Tina Mullins: Thank you! 01:17:26 Dennis Kreps: Thank you for starting the conversation. 01:17:27 Maria Almaguer: :) 01:17:29 Tracy Logan: I want one! 01:17:31 Rachael: thank you! :) 01:17:33 Anna Clark: So great! 01:17:37 Bill Bowman: @clare, as long as it is equitable, and defined, then it should be fine? 01:17:38 Brooke: Thank you for this! A much needed therapy session! 01:17:38 Mary Johnson: Love it Joann 01:17:40 Christina Doane: Thanks great 01:17:42 Maria Almaguer: Thank you, Casey and MLA. 01:17:44 Katharyn Jones: Thank you so much! 01:17:46 Anna Clark: Thank you, Casey!!! and MLA 01:17:46 Christina Doane: That's great 01:17:47 Shannon White: Share the online training available here with other staff as well. De-escalation Skills & Customer Service Skills that Address Policy Enforcement: • De-escalation – Recognizing and Responding to Tense Situations - https://bit.ly/2U6zwjj • De-escalation – Skills and Practices - https://bit.ly/378GxFL • Customer Service Strategies - https://bit.ly/2U75X12 • How to Handle Angry Customers - https://bit.ly/2Xv6dc9 01:17:47 Hayley Bommarito: Thank you so much! 01:17:48 Emily Blakowski: Thank you so much! 01:17:52 Kristin Church: thank you for this session 01:17:54 Cate: Thank you!!!! 01:18:01 Rebecca Hermen: Thank you. 01:18:01 Bill Caskey: Thanks, Casey! 01:18:02 Patty Braden: Thank you Casey. Good job! 01:18:04 Teneia Combs: Thank you Casey and MLA! Much needed conversation! 01:18:07 Amy Brown: Thanks everyone! 01:18:11 Lisa Buttigieg, MLA: Thank you Casey! 01:18:11 Bill Bowman: Thank you Casey! I will re-watch this later! 01:18:11 Pam Orr: /Thank you 01:18:12 Emily Temple: Thank you! 01:18:12 Tera Moon: thank you! 01:18:19 Bill Bowman: Thank you MLA! 01:18:20 Paula Drummond: thanks, well done!